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Post by FreeRadical on Jan 3, 2005 14:28:43 GMT -6
I sincerely apologize if my previous post offended anyone.
But I'm not the one who said "This school's so easy I could blow my nose on a piece of paper, turn it in, and get an A". One of my daughters friends, who currently attends DePaul (and LOVES, I might add) did. I also didn't say "I walked into a chemistry class there and I thought I was back in high school - only it was easier". My daughter's chemistry teacher did.
From UIC students you are far more likely to hear things like "I swear the kid sitting next to me couldn't read AT ALL, much less english", or "We spent five minutes on that in class and half the exam was on it!", or "the professor would have been great if there had been subtitles!".
These are the harsh facts. Ignore at own risk.
On a more positive note, UIC's GPPA pre-med and pre-dent's ALL have 34 or greater on their ACT's and top class ranks. Almost every one of them were admitted to Urbana but chose UIC instead.
And can anyone NOT envy the students who get full scholarships to DePaul, or Creighton, or any of the other expensive Catholic schools? (I don't include Loyola, 'cause it sucks, even for free).
In fact, UIC's GPPA medicine and dentistry are HARDER to get into then most elite private schools, including Northwestern (whose medical school is so expensive you need a financial planner to even consider it). Why is that? For the simple reason that the difference in tuition between UIC and any private medical school will add up to many, many tens of thousands of dollars of debt upon graduation.
Finally: DePaul's "computer science" is a joke. If that's what you aspire to do, you need to go to a real engineering school, not a trade school, and unless you are wealthy (IIT or Northwestern) or gifted (Urbana) that pretty much means UIC. And you won't find dummies in the college of engineering.
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Post by mr blue on Jan 3, 2005 15:52:35 GMT -6
freeradical, calm down...don't instigate a verbal fight over which school is "better" you are speaking of UIC's GPPA program--the most elite program ever to be offered at UIC. GPPA is direct admission to med/pharm/nursing/dentistry/etc programs for undergraduates, so selectivity is obviously going to be high. DePaul doesn't have any science programs, thus no GPPA program exists in that respect. If you're projecting to attend business or law school, or interested in music, communications, or the arts, then depaul is the school for you. it is plain and simple, an arts school with powerful business and law and compsci curriculum. Just ask the thousands of alumni all over Chicago and the rest of the nation. Even Major Daley is a grad of our law school this will be my last post about this, so if you want to argue further, fine. lincoln park is a fun college town and depaul's academics are just as strong as UIC's. combine a beautiful campus, history, a hot basketball team who were regular season CUSA champs with wins over Cincy and Louisville, and a visit by the greatest president in recent history (Clinton) to depaul and you have a winner.
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Post by FlameFan on Jan 3, 2005 16:23:22 GMT -6
Which is a better academic institution, DePaul or UIC? I don't think there is a clear answer to that question. It is all going to depend on a personal choice. As for academics, each has some good programs. There is no huge disparity in terms of overall quality.
They are very idfferent schools in many ways concerning environment, student life, etc.
Best advice is to visit and learn as much as you can about both schools, then choose the one that is right for you.
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Post by Lee on Jan 3, 2005 18:33:45 GMT -6
freeradical, calm down...don't instigate a verbal fight over which school is "better" you are speaking of UIC's GPPA program--the most elite program ever to be offered at UIC. GPPA is direct admission to med/pharm/nursing/dentistry/etc programs for undergraduates, so selectivity is obviously going to be high. DePaul doesn't have any science programs, thus no GPPA program exists in that respect. If you're projecting to attend business or law school, or interested in music, communications, or the arts, then depaul is the school for you. it is plain and simple, an arts school with powerful business and law and compsci curriculum. Just ask the thousands of alumni all over Chicago and the rest of the nation. Even Major Daley is a grad of our law school this will be my last post about this, so if you want to argue further, fine. lincoln park is a fun college town and depaul's academics are just as strong as UIC's. combine a beautiful campus, history, a hot basketball team who were regular season CUSA champs with wins over Cincy and Louisville, and a visit by the greatest president in recent history (Clinton) to depaul and you have a winner. aren't you instigating a verbal "fight" over which school is "better" right here? Ah, but I see this will be your last post, if we want to argue about it, fine. YOU HAVE HAD THE LAST WORD! Lincoln Park is a town?
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Post by UICJohn on Jan 4, 2005 0:01:52 GMT -6
FreeRadical...
If your daughters friend goes to DePaul, how does she know anything about UIC? I have attended there for four years, so using my words, I would think, would be a better way to gauge UIC and their academics.
I know people who go to DePaul as well. I have seen some papers that they have received A's or B's on and cannot believe it. They seem like papers I wrote in high school. Another friend of mine was taking an Algebra class at DePaul and was doing things that my friends in Math 090 at UIC were doing (090 classes do not count for credits because they're lower than required). So there are things that go both ways. Oh, and by the way, both of these DePaul students I speak of were rejected by UIC. Or how about the average ACT score of a DePaul student is lower than UIC (DePaul 22, UIC 23.4, Loyola 24). Or the U.S. News ranked UIC and DePaul both 3rd Tier universities, but of those, UIC was the highest ranked 3rd Tier (meaning a fraction of a point away from 2nd Tier) while DePaul was in the middle of the pack.
I do not hate DePaul. Like I have said before, I strongly thought about attending there and even reapplied after my Freshman year. UIC can be kind of crappy if you don't try to get into activities. They have activities, but at UIC, being a larger school with more commuters, it is harder. However, if you try, you'll find things of your interest. However, the same can be said about DePaul. I know people at both schools who just go to class and go home. If it doesn't bother you, then so be it.
The only thing that really bothers me is the stereotypes that DePaul is some high - and - mighty private institution and UIC is just a fall back school. Last year, I knew of 4 students who were rejected from UIC and ended up at DePaul, and I don't know many Freshman being a Senior.
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bigm
New Recruit
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Post by bigm on Jan 4, 2005 0:19:38 GMT -6
I am going to try my best to be as unbiased as possible. Kevin, you mentioned a few majors that you may consider. If you are considering communications, I think DePaul may have what you are looking for. I say that only because they have different branches of communications you can try out. I don’t think UIC has that. I spoke to a girl who attends DePaul and she is majoring in communications. The classes she have been taking made me think that she is a film major. That’s because her curriculum includes a lot of film and TV classes. I think that’s valuable if one wants to have a well-rounded education in communication. But honestly, after talking to her, I don’t feel that she is all that smart. But can we really blame a school for that? Business/ Finance: I think that’s a toss up. But if I was to advice my brothers where to go, I would have to say to try DePaul out first. They may be considered better because of their long history. I don’t think they are any better academically, but when employers look at your resume, I know first hand that it would look nice if you came from DePaul. However, if one attends UIC and gets the right internship, then a job should be easy. I know a girl who was a finance major and ids minor who isn’t doing very well right not. She hates her job. Oh, and she attended DePaul. Another girl did the same thing, and she likes her job slightly better. A guy, who attended UIC and majored in finance, is doing pretty well. But like I said, get the right internship, you’ll be ok. As far as philosophy, it’s UIC hands down. DePaul may have one advantage and that’s because they may have classes that deal with Catholic philosophy. However, UIC has a renowned philosopher in medieval philosophy, which in my experience deals a lot with philosophy of religion. So, that may just negate that advantage right there. Other than that, UIC has one of the nation’s best philosophy programs. From ancient western philosophy, to logic, to philosophy of science, to philosophy of mind, UIC has one of the nation’s best. If rankings count for anything, UIC’s philosophy program ranks higher than that of U of I and Northwestern (sorry, catalumm2000). DePaul wasn’t even mentioned. For what it’s worth, UIC math program is one of the nation’s best too. Again, if rankings matter to you guys, when I was in school, UIC’s math program was ranked better than U of I, and was close to Northwestern and Michigan. DePaul wasn’t even mentioned. I think some of the main reasons why UIC has a band rep is because of it’s ugly campus and the students the University admits (which is in the rankings). I attended UIC (if you haven’t figured it out already), and I couldn’t believe some of the classmates I had. Some were lazy, some didn’t care for school, and a lot attended college just to see if “college is for them.” But there were plenty more of people I met who I thought were geniuses. I can give you many examples here, but I will leave with one example. I know a guy who was a fellow math major. I always thought he was a genius. After graduation, he got a scholarship to study math at Oxford. He got his master in one year – one year – and started med school at UIC. I ran into him one day on the train. He was sleeping, and on his lap, was a math book. He woke up and we talked. I asked why is he reading a math book and not some science book. He said he is trying to understand and prove this one theorem that has been bothering him. Think about it, guys. Med school is hard. People study 24/7 just to stay alive. Not only is this guy breezing through med school, but he is also trying to prove complex math theorems. Point of the story: if UIC were more careful with the students they admit, their reputation would be much better. And one shouldn’t judge a school strictly on what one reads about on rankings. One should talk to some of its students. Rankings really shouldn’t be the main factor in considering any University’s program. A good way to determine it is to visit the campus, talk to students who attends or attended the University, research the University’s program of study, and research the professors of the major you wish to consider. Let this end the debate. I think this debate will never cease. I only write this to help Kevin deciding on which school to choose. This is a BASKETBALL board. Let's keep it that way.
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bigm
New Recruit
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Post by bigm on Jan 4, 2005 1:00:24 GMT -6
Oh, and a comment: the guy who said that students who attend Illinois are gifted has no clue what he is talking about. I know tons of people who attend or attended U of I are no where near gifted. I think if you are not comparing schools from the Ivy league or schools like Northwestern and U of Chicago, then every universities are going to have their "gifted" and regular students.
I worked at one of the well-known Market Research company in the nation for over a year. Some of my co-workers came from schools like Yale, Northwestern, Duke, U of C, Wisconsin, and Miami-Ohio (no, there was not Illinois or DePaul alums there). Except from my co-worker from U of C, I wouldn't consider any of them "gifted". They were all very smart people, but only one I would consider "gifted." I have a friend who I would considered very smart, probably "gifted" (and if you don't believe me, try talking to her and ask her anything), and she went to school at Loyola, and med school and UIC. I know a guy who attended U of I (and we went to the same high school), and he's as dumb as a rat. But then again I know a girl who went to U of I and she's extremly smart. The same occurance is at UIC.
So please, don't be under the illusion that students who attend U of I are "gifted." My cousin goes to U or I, and he is no where near "gifted."
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Post by catalum2000 on Jan 5, 2005 22:21:01 GMT -6
No offense taken, BigM. If there's one thing I've learned its that different schools tend to have different strengths. I've never heard of any important philosophers coming out of NU so that doesn't surprise me much. And UIC is easily one of the best engineering/science schools in the country. When I was at UIC, I spent time in the Business Administration and Liberal Arts (history) schools. I wasn't at all impressed with the BA school but there were some damned fine professors in the history department. And I know quite a few very good engineers who came out of UIC. In medical terms, NU and UIC are awfully close. But I honestly think UIC is slightly better there simply because the medical campus, which includes Rush U., is just more all-encompassing than NU's medical school. Plus, the UIC/UIUC/UIS connections are a definite bonus to the medical school. Whoever said it (you, maybe?) was dead on. It's a personal choice. There are some objective differences between programs, but I'll leave that to US News to work out. I went to Calumet College of St. Joseph (a small Catholic school in Indiana) then UIC and I found that NU was best for me. But that's me. Each student must do what works best for them because it's their life and they have to live it. So it better work because if not, it will make for a difficult post-college experience. As far as philosophy, it’s UIC hands down. DePaul may have one advantage and that’s because they may have classes that deal with Catholic philosophy. However, UIC has a renowned philosopher in medieval philosophy, which in my experience deals a lot with philosophy of religion. So, that may just negate that advantage right there. Other than that, UIC has one of the nation’s best philosophy programs. From ancient western philosophy, to logic, to philosophy of science, to philosophy of mind, UIC has one of the nation’s best. If rankings count for anything, UIC’s philosophy program ranks higher than that of U of I and Northwestern (sorry, catalumm2000). DePaul wasn’t even mentioned.
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Post by Chuck A on Jan 6, 2005 9:29:54 GMT -6
This one to mr blue: President Clinton also visited UIC in our town of "Little Italy".
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Post by Big D on Jan 6, 2005 10:03:35 GMT -6
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Post by Free Radical on Jan 6, 2005 15:01:19 GMT -6
Some Carifications From FreeRadical:
My daughter's friend is a current DePaul student. She loves it because it is easy and she has no objectives there other than getting good grades so she can get into law school (probably at DePaul) down the road.
I am a UIC graduate. My wife is a UIC graduate and was briefly an instructor at DePaul. My daughter is currently in the GPPA program at UIC. My neice is currently in UIUC. Virtually my entire family went to either UIUC or UIC. I am not objective when it comes to the University of Illinois.
The college of engineering at UIUC is the pride of that school and has consistenly ranked in the top ten (often in the top five) in every poll I have ever seen. Why anyone would want to trade the kind of grades and ACT scores it takes to get in there for an engineering degree is beyond me, but people do it.
I am not making it up when I tell you that when my wife was teaching at DePaul, the admin flat out told her to go easy on the grades, not to grade the students like she was used to doing at UIC.
Now how about some truth?
You can talk till you're blue in the face about what's better than what, but the objective fact is UIC's faculty generates some 280 million dollars of funded research annually. That puts UIC's faculty easily in the top four or five in the state, and the top 50 in the country. You simply won't find comparable numbers for DePaul, much less Loyola or any of the other Horizon league schools.
Ditto for the other schools in the Chicago area with the exception of University of Chicago, Northwestern, and (possibly?) IIT.
So if that's YOUR definition of academics (and it most certainly is with the administration at UIC or any other research university) then there is simply no denying the fact that DePaul is NOT in the same league as UIC.
Does that mean EVERY department at UIC is better than EVERY department at DePaul?
I don't think so.
Does that make UIC a better place for an undergraduate?
It depends entirely on the student.
Look guys: Coming into a UIC forum and making statements to the affect that DePaul equals UIC academically are provocative.
Are Taylor Street and Pilsen are "as good" as Lincoln Park simply because you, or I would like them to be perceived that way?
I personally think that Taylor Street and Pilsen are cooler by a mile than Lincoln Park, but it would NEVER say they are "as good", better, or WAY better because I have no objective basis upon which to make such a claim.
And I certainly wouldn't make any statement to that effect at a meeting of the Lincoln Park Chamber of Commerce.
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Post by Chuck A on Jan 6, 2005 15:31:48 GMT -6
Thanks Big D, that's exactly the visit I'm talking about. And ditto for the book signing. The line for that thing was 2 1/2 blocks long!
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bigm
New Recruit
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Post by bigm on Jan 6, 2005 21:22:21 GMT -6
On the contrary, catalum2000. NU has one of the best social and political and continental philosophy program in the country. Jürgen Habermas is one of the nation's renown political theorist. I think the reason why NU's philosophy is not better (rankingly) is because they don't have a diverse program. They need philosophers in logic, philosophy of science to name a few. Nevertheless, NU has a great philosophy program, but I wouldn't go there simply because -- and this is what I mean by choosing what's best for you -- my interest is in the philosophy of mind, which NU doesn't haven't any philosopher in its staff to teach it at this moment. But if you're looking for a program in continental and social and political philosophy, NU is one of the best.
UIUC's engineering program is one of the nation's best. This is outside of rankings and all.
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