John Marshall Law School and UIC

[UICJohn]

today.uic.edu/discussions-with-the-john-marshall-law-school

This is quite interesting news. As the article states it would need to be approved by U of I trustees so let’s see how that goes but Chancellor is making moves!

[Big D]

They’ve already posted about this on Facebook and have a fairly detailed FAQ online. It seems like they wouldn’t be doing this if it wasn’t going to happen.

I’d love for this to happen. Stanley Fish tried to do this years ago and who knows why it fell through. But UIUC did not want it to happen, and that right there tells you why it’s good for UIC. Whether the Board of UIUC grad Trustees would approve this...nother story.

Law school is hurting right now. I don’t think Valpo’s disaster of a school even admitted a single person this year. Private school is expensive. John Marshall is $72,500 per year! Under UIC, I imagine cost would go down as the only public option in the city. In addition, I believe UIC will eventually raise the profile of the law school, which doesn’t have such a great ranking right now.

UIC needs to make this happen. Contact UIC and the BoT and let’s get it done. If we don’t do it, UIUC might one day. Don’t forget they already have a Chicago law program...and with DPI coming in right down the street from UIC, they’re trying to minimize UIC’s presence by wrestling their way in.

Go Amiridis!

[UICJohn]

I think I will send Chancellor Amiridis an email about this.

I’ve never actually done that but can’t hurt to show alumni support. Anyone else to email Big D?

[Big D]

you could email U of I president Tim Killeen at [e-mail] and the Board of Trustees at [e-mail].

I’ve sent emails to Amiridis in the past. Never a response. Not even a “thanks for the concern”. Didn’t get a response from the Pres either when I complained about UIUC’s future satellite campus. I did, however, get a response from the secretary of the BoT, on behalf of the pres, amiridis, and Don Edwards (the trustee that I specifically addressed in my email) about that satellite campus. So you may get something. Actually I may give an update to the DPI thing in the other thread.

[uicc79]

Big D, would be interested in knowing what that response about the DPI was, so please share with the rest of us.

In regards to the JMLS; I distinctly remember there was opposition from the School of Law at the UIUC campus when it came up back in 1998/1999. Their reasoning was that there can only be 1 Law School for the UI system, and it must be the current one in Champana. Funny how that same reasoning didn't work a couple of years ago, when UIUC insisted on having their own med school. Apparently having only 1 med school, the current one administered by UIC, was good enough for UIUC.

I will say this about Amiridis; he can shake things up, always in a way that's good for UIC. I just read a news release on the UI site regarding the recent BOT's meeting on 11/16; Amiridis was given a $75,000 bonus for the year, because of his efforts on behalf on UIC. Specifically mentioned that enrollment has increased for the past couple of years, to now over 30,000 total students. It also mentioned that the bonus would become a permanent part of his yearly salary, because when his current salary is compared to the 8 peer universities that UIC is measured against, his salary was at the bottom. UI needs to make sure they keep Amiridis!!

[circle70]

I sent an e-mail last week to Chancellor Amiridis. The following is part of his response (maybe it helps to be a major donor) :

I appreciate your input and I share your passion. I also agree with you: a public law school would be of great value to UIC and the Chicago region, and further supports our mission to provide access to every possible opportunity for our students. I assure you we are putting every effort into making this happen. 

Also, the U of I alumni associations have been decentralized and UIC is now establishing its own alumni organization and that’s a step in the right direction.

[Chuck A]

Nov 28, 2017 12:21:45 GMT -6 circle70 said:

I sent an e-mail last week to Chancellor Amiridis. The following is part of his response (maybe it helps to be a major donor) :

I appreciate your input and I share your passion. I also agree with you: a public law school would be of great value to UIC and the Chicago region, and further supports our mission to provide access to every possible opportunity for our students. I assure you we are putting every effort into making this happen. 

Also, the U of I alumni associations have been decentralized and UIC is now establishing its own alumni organization and that’s a step in the right direction.

I've given back to my Alma mater, but I'm not a major donor (except when I spent money on basketball and baseball tickets and then money on food and UIC merchandise!). That does seem to be the trick to get Amiridis to respond to specific questions concerning UIC.

[thirdchance]

The challenge for UIC to acquire or merge with JMLS will be the opposition of the private university law schools in Chicago, particularly Loyola and IIT/Kent, along with UIUC.  They will quickly go to Michael Madigan, as they did last time, and quash this effort.  A public law school with public tuition will put IIT out of business.  The kent college of law keeps IIT afloat.

The last time this was tried, Republican Leader Lee Daniels supported it and even added an initial $150,000 recurring to the UIC budget to get things started, but Madigan was enlisted and the Democrats stopped it.

[VivatUIC]

I really want this to happen. Got an email from JMLS about them having a forum to discuss the merger. The cynic in me says downstate squashes it but I want to be a double alumnus!

[uicc79]

Vivat:
That's not cynicism in you, you're just speaking reality. This issue came up about 20 years ago, and yes, our esteemed downstate sister campus squashed it. Their rational? There can be only one law school for the U of I system, and it had to be the existing one 2 hours south of Chicago. Funny how that rational no longer applied when UI-UC decided it had to have its own med school.

[Big D]

Some JMLS students opposing the merger with UIC have started a petition. If nothing else, you get to see how some of the students feel.

www.thepetitionsite.com/567/299/805/students-against-the-uic-quotmergerquot/

[uicc79]

Interesting. One student said: "The stature and reputation of JMLS in the legal community stands on its own. UIC does not." Is that a swipe at UIC and its academic standing? Because another student commented: "John Marshall may fix its problem with its low bar passage rate by raising the GPA requirement for remaining enrolled." Sounds as if JMLS has some academic issues of its own that it needs to address.

[Big D]

I’m sure you’ve all seen this by now, but UIC JMLS is going to happen, with the first JMLS students being UIC students in fall 2019. UIC gets everything and pays nothing. There were several lengthy articles today.

I think this is great news and I hope to see reputations of the law program and UIC as a whole improve.

[UICJohn]

I think this is amazing news for UIC!

It was something we heard about for a while, that took even longer to make happen, and Amiridis came through! I know the U of I board has been against (because of UIUC) a Law School but we got it. Don’t know what the difference is - maybe that John Marshall is already established? - but we got it.

Along with our enrollment being one of the very FEW that are growing (and we are doing much larger amounts than the other two listed as growing), new buildings that are actually being built and not just rumors that dissipated, things are on the way up.

And we’ve said it again - athletic success does tie into increased interest in schools so let’s keep that going too!

[Big D]

JMLS doesn’t have the greatest reputation. It is highly regarded in a few areas such as legal writing and intellectual property, but I hope there is a very serious plan in place to improve its reputation in ALL disciplines. UIC should not be, and I believe will not be, satisfied with the current ranking.

Here are some things that need to happen, and happen fast:

1) Lower tuition. This has already been confirmed as happening by Chancellor Amiridis. JMLS currently costs about $50k per year. When it becomes public, private tuition goes bye-bye. UIUC charges about $35k per year and Northern Illinois, the next closest public, is about $22k per year (in state). Given our location, I think $25k-$27.5k sounds like a good starting point (immediate $20k+ discount for all current and future students). Public option in Chicago associated with a better university than NIU and slightly lower than UIUC to maybe eventually steal (when reputation improves) a student or two that might be thinking UIUC. The lower we go, the more immediate pressure we can put on Kent, Loyola, and DePaul. Most importantly, lowering tuition will increase the size of the applicant pool, which means we can be more selective in who we admit (better students, better reputation).

2) Faculty upgrade. To improve reputation, faculty hiring needs to be stepped up. This is a great opportunity to attract quality faculty that wants to be a part of building a top notch public law school in Chicago. From leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2018/07/university-of-illinois-chicago-board-proves-acquisition-of-john-marshall-law-school-in-chicago.html, we are keeping on all current JMLS faculty (which appears to number at around 75), which retain status and pay, but 6 have already been bought out, and we will be hiring 13 new faculty members in the next 3 years. These hires will be very important! Shoot for the stars! We need to show improvement and momentum quickly to starting creeping up in the rankings.

3) No politics. This really can’t be stressed enough. I am very worried UIUC and BoT will limit us behind the scenes. “You can have your law school, but you can only build it so high...can’t step on UIUC toes”. There is already much talk about admitting minorities and non-traditional students. Mission or not, if we’re going to do this right, we have to admit the best students we can get. I don’t want to hear anything about us not accepting the brightest because we have quotas we want/need to meet. The conspiracy theorist in me is already skeptical about the amount of external interference we’re up against in building this thing. Do not underestimate the desires of UIUC and the BoT, which is very UIUC-heavy. The UIUC law dean has already come out with his blessing, saying JMLS will not affect them because we’re attracting a different student. This attitude sounds like it’s coming from someone that has no need to feel threatened by “dilution” because it’s already been “worked out”. I want this to grow organically, without any puppet strings being pulled, or self limitations being applied.