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Post by UICJohn on Jan 27, 2005 11:37:34 GMT -6
Just a thought, but what is everyones idea of how Ced has developed under Jimmy? I am not saying that he hasn't developed nor am I saying that he developed as much as he should. Just putting this question out there. I remember reading some publications that had Ced as a Top 10 player coming out of high school and I don't remember seeing any that didn't include him in his Top 25. Those are lofty rankings and while he has done alot for UIC, has he lived up to that type of hype? Thoughts.
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Post by WarriorFlame on Jan 27, 2005 11:56:50 GMT -6
If leading the Flames to 2 NCAA berths and becoming the leading scorer in school history is developing...then I think he has developed. He's done a tremendous job considering he is so heavily gameplanned for, it's ridiculous. The problem in the last four years a true second scoring option. There's simply been a lack of anyone else who can create and score. That's why every time UIC plays a high-major, they've struggled (exception GT). Kansas/Oklahoma/Duke took Ced out the game by scheming only to stop him. Granted, in some of those games he managed to score some points.
He has developed his handles, his ability to create his own shot and his defense throughout his 4 years. I don't know who to credit for those improvements, but there is no doubt that he is a better player now then he was 4 years ago.
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Post by Mr Frontrow on Jan 28, 2005 7:22:00 GMT -6
Reply to Warrior Flame: This isn't flipping burgers at Burger King. If Collins is the head of a company making widgets with his record he'd be gone. Lets give him a benchmark of 20 wins, base salary of $50,000 and add $12,000 per win subtract 12,000 per loss he' in the hole. All you have to do is look down the bench for a better floor coach. I'm not saying Jimmy is terrible, as a head coach he's a great recruiter.
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Post by UICJason on Jan 28, 2005 8:36:04 GMT -6
Reply to Warrior Flame: This isn't flipping burgers at Burger King. If Collins is the head of a company making widgets with his record he'd be gone. Lets give him a benchmark of 20 wins, base salary of $50,000 and add $12,000 per win subtract 12,000 per loss he' in the hole. All you have to do is look down the bench for a better floor coach. I'm not saying Jimmy is terrible, as a head coach he's a great recruiter. A benchmark of 20 wins? Holy cow. Who do you think we are? I stopped reading after that because you're applying Duke standards to a mid major with 20 years of history.
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Post by Mr Frontrow on Jan 28, 2005 9:38:52 GMT -6
If you don't aspire to excellence, you will never be excellent!
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Post by UICJason on Jan 28, 2005 10:06:52 GMT -6
If you don't aspire to excellence, you will never be excellent! Thanks for the inspirational quote, but you can't just pretend you're excellent one year. It doesn't work that way. You have to get there through steps. A program in our position should aspire for lots of 20 win seasons, but to expect to have no down years is not going to be realistic. Look at other teams out there. Marquette, for instance I use as an example because I know much about them, has a very recent Final Four , a national championshp and hall of fame coach in their history and a long history behind them. They have some awesome recruiting classes with guys in the national top 100, but they have down years. Everyone, except for a few schools in elite conferences does. Should MU fire Tom Crean? Should UCLA fire Ben Howland? Should Memphis fire John Calipari?
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Post by WarriorFlame on Jan 28, 2005 10:26:34 GMT -6
I think Memphis should fire John Calipari for numerous reasons. Surprisingly none of them are directly related to his win-loss record.
I'm not certain who "Mr Frontrow" is referring to when he says that all you need to do is to look down the bench to find a better floor coach. Any insights?
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Post by UICJason on Jan 28, 2005 10:50:30 GMT -6
Coomes.
There is a contingent of Flames fans who think that he is the answer to basketball coaching. What they don't realize is that many assistant coaches are the true masterminds of offenses and defenses in both pro and college basketball. If he were truly a wonderful offensive mind, this team would be fine. One doesn't have to be the head coach to teach. He's the 1st assistant, in fact, technically, he's an associate head coach.
It's great if you can have one of the few coaches in the land who are recruiting machines and coach a good game like K, Pitino, etc. The second best option, especially for a mid-major is to have a recruiting machine with a great staff.
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Post by Big D on Jan 28, 2005 12:20:46 GMT -6
Jimmy usually misses a game a year due to the flu or something and he's been tossed a couple of times....hasn't Coomes been the one to substitue coach? And every time, haven't we lost?
I don't think Coomes is the answer.....
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Post by Mr Frontrow on Jan 29, 2005 11:36:55 GMT -6
Were you at the game Collins was tossed from last year? Coomes did win that game. While on the subject a head coach shouldn't miss, what at the time was the (Detroit)biggest game of the season with flu. he should take some Kopectate and tough it out.
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Post by UICJason on Jan 29, 2005 11:58:03 GMT -6
Were you at the game Collins was tossed from last year? Coomes did win that game. While on the subject a head coach shouldn't miss, what at the time was the (Detroit)biggest game of the season with flu. he should take some Kopectate and tough it out. You should consider registering Mr. F. That way you won't accidentally post things 3 times. I deleted the other two. But, registering is fun...enjoyable and helps boost our numbers.
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Post by Big D on Jan 29, 2005 14:10:31 GMT -6
Were you at the game Collins was tossed from last year? Coomes did win that game. While on the subject a head coach shouldn't miss, what at the time was the (Detroit)biggest game of the season with flu. he should take some Kopectate and tough it out. I stand corrected then, but I agree with you...he should be toughing it out....especially for important conference games. I think the last two years he actually missed one game each year with the flu.
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Post by Jason T on Jan 31, 2005 15:09:09 GMT -6
Jimmy Collins won't be coaching at New Mexico State. Although it IS true he turned the Flames into an NCAA team in his 2nd season as coach. And before he became the Flames coach, UIC's basketball team flat-out sucked.
Of course, one of the reasons why he turned the Flames program into a winning program so soon is becasuse that Flames team also had some players with good talent. I don't think NMSU has some players with good talent. And I think he might have a tougher time convincing a player to play in New Mexico over a more bigger program.
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Post by Lee on Jan 31, 2005 16:25:31 GMT -6
Jimmy Collins won't be coaching at New Mexico State. Although it IS true he turned the Flames into an NCAA team in his 2nd season as coach. And before he became the Flames coach, UIC's basketball team flat-out sucked. Of course, one of the reasons why he turned the Flames program into a winning program so soon is becasuse that Flames team also had some players with good talent. I don't think NMSU has some players with good talent. And I think he might have a tougher time convincing a player to play in New Mexico over a more bigger program. I wouldn't say uic sucked before collins. They had some nice teams. Definitely some great individual players. Could you imagine a sherrell ford skill level player, playing alongside the current team. I suppose it's pretty rare to get those kind of athletes at mid majors.
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