UIC vs Loyola academics

[uicval]

So my friend who goes to Loyola gave me some s@#! about how my chemistry degree from UIC was going to be useless, because I didn't go to a "better and higher ranked school" (his words) like Loyola.

Ended up looking up some rankings between the two schools, and this is the result. Needless to say, UIC seems the better choice by far:

i.imgur.com/WdD6T.png - feel free to go ahead and forward this to anyone from Loyola giving you s@#! too (same with depaul, they're even worse)

Loyola's chem department isn't even ranked. To be honest, I think rankings are bulls@#! for anyone except the faculty and that your level of education will be based on how much effort you put into your education, not which school you go to. I feel like my friends are Loyola are saying these things, because they realize that I took the smarter path of going to a better school for 1/4th of the cost.

I don't know ... elitism seems rampant in private schools, it's understandable for schools who are actually highly ranked like UC and Northwestern, but loyola and depaul? Come on. Why pay more to go to a worse or equivalent school. I mean if you're a real "rank whore" you might as well go to UIUC - same tuition as UIC and most of their departments in science/engineering/cs/math are top ten to twenty, but like I said, I personally think your education will be based on the effort you put in. UIC was the best choice for me based on cost (cheapest and highest ranked public school in this area), quality of education (only UC and Northwestern are better in the Chicago area) and location (can't leave Chicago due to family, so UIUC is out of the question for me).

What do you guys think?

[Big D]

uicval, welcome to the board...nice post!

Curious where you saw these rankings? It seems to me that UIC slaughters Loyola in almost every category except law, and as you know, we don't have a law school...thanks UIUC!!! But this seems to contradict USNews, which has Loyola higher than UIC.....not that those rankings are worth the paper they're printed on, but they're important for the simple fact that 99% of people believe what they read and go with it. Just read those college messageboards comparing UIC to school X (e.g., Loyola, Depaul, etc.). UIC always comes up on the short end, but rarely is convincing evidence supplied.

I agree with you. In the end, the actual school you attend doesn't matter as much as what you put into it. Unfortunately, in our shallow and materialistic society, people get caught up in the name game....and people think more expensive equals higher quality. Loyola is an expensive, private school....UIC is the little public sister of almighty UIUC...a commuter school with an identity crisis, and crappy athletics, that is built in the (former) ghetto on the near west side.....so of course, people look down on us.

A few years ago, I received my master's from Johns Hopkins. Private...very highly ranked....when people ask where I went to school and I mention UIC and Hopkins, I get the "where?" for UIC and the "oh wow" for Hopkins. It's all reputation and money. Although I learned a lot at Hopkins, UIC was way tougher, and I got a lot more out of it....maybe most people get more out of undergrad...I don't know. But I know I busted my hump a lot more at UIC for my grades. And it prepared me well for work and for my later studies.

I'm happy with my degree and all other UIC alums should be as well. Plus, you probably have minimal debt, if any...10 years later, I still have friends paying off huge student loans. No thank you.

The only thing I wish UIC had was better athletics. I simply can't get into college football, as much as I want to, because we don't have a team...and I know we'll be lucky to ever compete on a national level in other sports. On the bright side, it could be worse....you could be a fan of Loyola athletics up to your eyeballs in debt.

[uicval]

Hey Big D. Thanks for the welcome!

That's the thing, I got these rankings off of USNews. If you go to each school's individual profile page and click on the "rankings" tab above, you'll get the data in the picture. I'm not sure why Loyola is then ranked overall higher than UIC - maybe the overall rank is also based on some arbitrary garage like alumni donations or "brand recognition" instead of fully based on academics. Or if we really want to be cynical, it might be based on who bribes USNews the most . Who knows.

I completely agree with you about classes at UIC being tough. My friends at Loyola barely even have class when you take out all their religious holidays that they get - and on top of all those holidays, they only have 14 week semesters (minus tons of days off) vs UIC's 15. Plus UIC has all of its finals crammed into a week whereas Loyola students have their finals schedule spread out over a week and a half or so.

I'm entering my final year at UIC this fall, and I'm glad I came here. I feel like I've really earned my grades with the amount of work I had to put in to get them. I'm also proud of the way the east campus is slowly improving - that new recreation center (http://www.uic.edu/depts/recreation/facilities_srf_photos.html) is just amazing and it looks like they're using that building design for the renovation of the other buildings. I've had a few classes in them and they look great. Give UIC another 10 years and I'm sure it'll be a force to be reckoned with. It isn't helping that Illinois can't fund its schools properly, because they refuse to issue bonds and instead stick with the "we'll pay you when we feel like it" route.

"...Loyola athletics up to your eyeballs in debt. "

Oh man you have no idea. My friend I was talking about earlier graduated this spring and is in 200k debt from just tuition and dorm fees alone. He's basically paying off an average sized house at 22 years of age. I'm projecting about 29k in debt (partly because I was able to pay some of it during the years and commute). Huge difference.

[Big D]

Not sure if you've seen it, but here's the thread with the USNews formula breakdown:

uicflames.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=OffTopic&action=display&thread=2451

....you can see why Loyola would be ahead of UIC in overall ranking.

Reputation (from both high school counselors and other university presidents, deans, etc.): Advantage: Probably Loyola - private, expensive.

Graduation and Retention rate: Advantage - Probably Loyola - Commuter schools tend to have lower rates....plus, UIC has had 0 grade inflation -> harder courses -> more dropouts

Faculty Resources: Advantage - Loyola - as a private school, they have smaller classes, lower student to faculty ratio, etc.

Loyola probably also leads in alumni giving rate, financial resources, and other categories.

So, the fact that UIC is even close to Loyola in the overall rankings given that we probably lose quite handily in most of the above categories speaks volumes about the quality at UIC in what really matters most....the actual academics. And, now those rankings make sense.

That amount of debt (200k) is just sickening. It's no wonder that student loan debt has surpassed credit card debt in this country. And forget about claiming bankruptcy....student loans stay with you forever....until they're paid off. Given a similar degree, you'd have to wonder if an average Loyola student's earnings to debt ratio will ever match that of an average UIC student's. I'd be curious to see statistics on that.

UIC has changed a ton for the better since I left in 2001....south campus went up and it's amazing. You're rights...the state is killing education right now in Illinois, but UIC just has to keep doing the best it can to weather the storm and improve itself. I, too, believe that UIC will eventually earn some more respect.

Have a great last year! If you haven't given the basketball team a chance yet, it could be an interesting ride next year. We can use all the fans we can get.

[axaguy]

Apples and oranges for sure. You really can't compare the two at all. I think the comparisons are done by or encouraged by the Loyola crowd because they actually fear the reputation and strength of UIC. Comparing a large public university with a smaller private university is an exercise in futility. Our mission is much different than theirs, for sure, but I stack our graduates and programs against theirs any day.
Regarding the USNews poll.... reputation is a ridiculous way to measure or compare universities. Way to subjective and unquantifiable. A school's reputation could be based on inaccurate presumption, rumor and just plain bad information. How ANY poll with any credibility can use people's opinion of a reputation as a rating tool is beyond belief.
Anyway, UIC doesn't have to feel 2nd fiddle to anyone, including Champaign, too!!!!!!!!!!
We are a first rate institution with great programs, diversified student body and great instructors and staff.