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Post by uic53 on Aug 31, 2018 16:45:47 GMT -6
Anybody else receive the email today from the gymnastics coach saying that UIC has dropped mens gymnastics? i got an email from Coach Nelson stating that this will be the last year of competition and to let the administration know that is unacceptable. I am incredibly disappointed because the mens gymnastics program is arguably the best program in the history of the school. Hopefully this is not to raise more funds for basketball. The hoops program really doesn't deserve anything more until they finally win something.
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Post by UICJohn on Aug 31, 2018 20:13:29 GMT -6
Oh man. That’s quite the news.
It makes me wonder a few things:
1) Why gymnastics? As you said, men’s gymnastics has had a pretty decorated past. Always ranked or close to it. I think last year we hated the national championships at UIC even.
2) Even with UIC having ranked teams, we have never been close to competing with the elite programs. I don’t know how many programs are in NCAA Division I but it isn’t possible to get the top athletes and not possible to compete with the way gymnastics is set up. Same can be said for women’s tennis I suppose - so many straight league titles just to be swept by a top ranked team in the tournament.
3) We have a lot of programs that are just there. No offense to men’s or women’s track and field or swimming and diving programs but they never have competed in my history of following UIC athletics. And again, no offense, but what is their point? I suppose they don’t cost too much money to operate but still.
4) What is the reasoning for this? Simply cost cutting? Putting resources elsewhere? A hockey or football team? (Okay, that last one was meant to be ridiculous but would be great).
If letters are being sent out then word will get out. But knowing us we won’t comment on it as our program doesn’t like to say anything about anything.
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Post by FlexPlanner on Aug 31, 2018 20:20:12 GMT -6
Sorry to hear this though I need to say that I am not a gymnastics fan and have never been to a UIC gymnastics meet.
There are surprisingly few college gymnastics programs (N = 16) and the Big Ten is home to seven of them. Throw in UIC and that's half of the gymnastics programs in the whole country.
I believe that UIC hosts an annual gymnastics meet that draws teams from across the country.
I hope the administration thought this through before announcing their decision.
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Post by Big D on Aug 31, 2018 21:26:01 GMT -6
From the Trib article I posted in the off-topic section, I had no idea there were so few D1 gymnastics teams. It appears to be a dying sport and I don’t want to sound insensitive, but past gymnasts have helped kill their own sport. There just aren’t enough elite athletes to go around and they NEVER pick the smaller schools...well when a school can never realistically compete with the best in a declining expensive sport (think of all the equipment only gymnasts use), the writing was on the wall. If UIC could occasionally get a star and compete for an NCAA title, this program would still be here. But gymnasts only want to compete for a few top programs.
The question is are we hurting financially? Or are we looking to free ourselves of an anchor and add another sport? Does this make us more attractive to other conferences that don’t have gymnastics? UIC better not let the gymnastics program die in vain. It’s time to start stepping up our game. In all sports.
Feel super bad for the athletes, especially the freshmen...hope they can find a spot on another team, or at least take advantage of free school at UIC.
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Post by FlexPlanner on Aug 31, 2018 21:36:08 GMT -6
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Post by Big D on Sept 2, 2018 8:34:13 GMT -6
There’s been a bit of support throughout twitter land for the programs. I saw somewhere that gymnastics only accounts for 0.25% of the athletics budget and that nobody on the team is on scholarship. Meanwhile, the AD says scholarships will be honored. Are there scholarships or not?...the problem is we release a vague statement saying “it’s cut”...with no details. Is it financial, is it priorities? What is the reason? If it’s only 0.25% (I do question the validity of this number), this hardly seems like a reason to end a 70+ year program. Just come out and be honest and explain. The sport appears to be declining at both the college and high school level. As was said, only 15 programs left on men’s side...down from 212 in 1969. Only 60 teams left on women’s side, also less than years ago. I saw other universities such as UCLA and Minnesota come out in support of our teams, teams that I’m guessing have used us as a punching bag in the past and would continue to do so in the future. Some complaining about the loss of the Windy City Invitational, but again, are we ever really legit contenders in our own tournament? We seem to be offering opponents nice winning trips to Chicago. Apparently we have two NCAA titles...did not know this...but I’m guessing those are old titles, from a time before UIC was left in the dust of all the serious athletic departments. In today’s landscape, we have no shot of winning a title in just about any sport...but gymnastics apparently has been deemed unworthy of the money/resources when the sport is in decline. Who knows. Sad for athletes and the coaching staff. Maybe the shock will raise enough money to keep it alive for another year, but generally, once minds are made up, it’s lights out. I think this happened to Wright St swimming/diving, which they said was gonna be cut. I believe they raised enough to keep it going an extra year but it ended up getting cut after that next season...so long term, it doesn’t look good. Here’s a segment from CBS: cbsloc.al/2CdmHgm
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Post by UICJohn on Sept 2, 2018 13:09:40 GMT -6
I have absolutely no knowledge of the UIC athletics budget (tried doing a quick search and didn't find much but also didn't try too hard). However, I find it very hard to believe that gymnastics accounts for such a small percentage of the overall budget. The men's and women's teams combined have 36 members so travel, lodging, food, etc. alone account for a pretty big percentage.
In regards to scholarships, I always assumed that some teams get full scholarships - basketball, for example - while others get either partial or different levels of scholarships. For example, soccer gets 20 credits so some players might get full scholarships, some partial, if that makes any sense. I would assume that all programs are like that but, again, I don't know.
If I'm going to try and understand UIC on this point, high school and college programs are declining and there has to be a reason for that. I do feel for the athletes though. It makes absolutely no sense, but it would be nice if they could say 'we are cancelling the program in 4 years' so that all athletes that have committed to UIC, to train and perform for them, to represent us, can do that full through.
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Post by Big D on Sept 3, 2018 8:45:03 GMT -6
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Post by UICJohn on Sept 3, 2018 13:35:26 GMT -6
Random thoughts -
*I still have a hard time thinking gymnastics takes up 0.25% of the budget but after reading that article I would also believe it’s a lot less than I had imagined. With so much paid for and donations I guess the only cost is travel. The article was confusing when it said travel is paid for by their tuition.
*I feel terrible for the athletes but also the coaches. Very tough for them.
*When you consider only 16 men’s programs it kind of makes it an easy target for termination. Like someon said, we host the Windy City Invitational every year and, to my knowledge, have always come in last place.
*The Chancellor, when beginning his position, specifically pointed out baseball, men’s soccer and basketball as programs that are flagships and must succeed. If this move was made to benefit another program(s) I wouldn’t be surprised. Not sure how much more baseball can get - they turfed the whole half of the PEB a few years back to get them an indoor facility!
*Big move for early on in our AD’s career. I wonder who was the force behind this.
*Does giving more resources to other programs do anything? Basketball has many resources and, while the program is looking up, we’ve had a dreadful ROI the last 10+ years. Less degree with baseball and soccer but still some.
*Ive never been to a gymnastics meet so I can’t say I have too much connection (well, none actually) except that they’re a UIC sport
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Post by questcc on Sept 4, 2018 7:14:28 GMT -6
I feel bad because you hate to see people los their jobs and students perhaps their scholarships (hopefully the get honored,but I did not read the article but the might). But from reading here, only a limited number of D1 gymnastics programs, the writing was on the wall, no matter what fraction of the budget they take. My only connection to the program is that I had education courses at UIC with Coach Nelson and he walked around the classroom on his hands and talked for 5 minutes during an introductory lesson on who you were!
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Post by Big D on Sept 4, 2018 9:35:07 GMT -6
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Post by madstomper on Sept 4, 2018 13:00:41 GMT -6
The men's team as a whole hasn't been good in a long time. They have had good individual performers but as a whole they have struggled. But they are non-scholarship (so is track and field; are they next?). I did go to a few women's meets (my roommate dated one of the team members) back in late 90's/early 2000's. They have been better than the men's but not by much lately. Most of the people who attend the meets are from the gymnastics community, not UIC students. The AD has to make cuts, guess every penny helps...wonder if the fact that it's a non-HL sport played a role; it had to.
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Post by UICJohn on Sept 4, 2018 21:17:27 GMT -6
Is it bad if we look at the other programs and wonder their purpose? Not to be too rough but the volleyball team was handled easily by Chicago State tonight. CHICAGO STATE!
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Post by wadewilson on Sept 4, 2018 22:48:23 GMT -6
UICJohn.... yea other sports have a purpose. You know better to call that into question... There is a lot more to collegiate athletics then your Football and Basketball programs. Unfortunately in collegiate athletics... especially at mid-majors like UIC, the olympic sports are not high on the priority list... and joe blow fan recognizes the importance of our olympic sport movement. Mens and womens gymnastics are the latest victims of athletic program cuts and program oversight. Its truly unfortunate because i can not think of another team at uic that was regularly sending kids to nationals (maybe swimming, and first round action for track & women tennis)....regionals baseball and softball. CIT, CBI and other wack post season basketball tournaments which you pay to play (don't count IMHO). The fact is those kids and coaches worked there asses off... just like their cohorts in basketball & football.... but because they are not a glitz & glamour sport, their existance was called into question at uic. The fact remains that uic is deeply.... i mean deeply underfunding not 1 but all of their programs. Men's basketball needs a budget boost of a couple of mil to be a regular mid-major contender. The uic olympic sports are deeply under funded for scholarships... the fact that there exists success in athletics at uic is a strong testament to the work ethic and dedication of student-athletes, coaches and support staff within the department. These money woes are not the fault of old/new AD, current chancellor, etc.... these are the results of bad decision making that occurred years/decade or more ago...the details of which I can not get into I only hope this major sacrifice of these two programs will somehow benefit the program as a whole..... AD & Chancellor.... It was your decision...the community knows it and we'll keep a watchful eye to make sure you made the right decision... time will tell. I do not think there will be other cuts of sports at uic... they would have made those announcements along with gymnastics... please lets not call into question the existance of other teams at this time. Lets remember that these 2 programs were cut due to finacial constraints and is is what is effecting athletic program growth/success at uic. We need to increase improve the pipeline of money to the athletic department to see immediate change... I'm officially stepping off my soap box... goodnight!
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Post by chrisinatx on Sept 7, 2018 10:29:24 GMT -6
All of the above aside, the school is handling this move in the worst way possible. There's nothing about it on UICFlames.com. There's nothing on any of the social media feeds. In fact, some allege that the school is deleting Facebook comments that mention UIC gymnastics. The only messaging about this has been in the media and in back-channels like this one. That's not how you handle a crisis. As a longtime fan of the athletics program, it's really unsettling to watch this unfold like this. EDIT: So there is a story on UICFlames.com but it's not on the homepage and the headline is a bit misleading: UIC ANNOUNCES CHANGE TO SPORT OFFERINGS IN 2019-20. Lol. Read it here.
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