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Post by Sammy Sosa on Feb 2, 2005 16:56:21 GMT -6
I'd hate to watch a baseball game in the Pavilion!!
What are you thinking??
Comparing the Pavilion to Professional sports venues? Are you seriously comparing it to baseball stadiums? And by the way, what about Soldier Field?? Honestly, the Pavilion has a big curtain at one end, doesn't it?? Isn't it more of a hockey rink than a basketball court?? I've watched more televised ping pong in there than basketball.
You could probably say that it is the best day care center in the city.. with all the bussed in kids that you draw.
I can't believe that you make those comparrisons!
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Post by NewFoundGlory on Feb 2, 2005 17:18:51 GMT -6
The fact is that people are far more likely to choose to attend UIC because they want to be engineers or doctors than because they want to attend basketball games. And that's unfortunate, because there's really nothing stopping them from doing both. I really don't think the athletic department has done nearly enough to promote basketball (and sports in general) as part of campus life at UIC. I also don't think the administration quite realizes that sports fandom is their best shot at creating the sense of community that they have been (supposedly) striving for all these years. It needs to be actively promoted to the students FROM THE DAY THEY START at UIC. They need things like student-only after-game dances and parties at Circle Center. Maybe invite the opposing team's fans (student ID required, of course). ENCOURAGE them to make the trip from Milwaukee or wherever, and welcome them when they do. If groups of Panther loonies want to come whoop it up in the big city for the weekend, make it easy. Make a spectacle out of it. THAT's how you'll create a culture of fandom on campus. The fact is, there is no better place to watch a sporting event than the Pavilion. It is in every way FAR SUPERIOR to the United Center, infinitely better than Comiskey Park, and only really second only to Wrigley Field in Chicago. Which is saying a hell of a lot considering that Wrigley Field is the grand cathedral of baseball. Lol, this has to be a joke?
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Post by FreeRadical on Feb 2, 2005 21:01:41 GMT -6
"Lol, this has to be a joke?"
Would somebody PLEASE change junior's diaper?
And FOR GOD'S SAKE stop putting Ex-Lax in his Fruit Loops!
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Post by Big D on Feb 2, 2005 21:38:47 GMT -6
I happen to think that the Pavilion is an awesome place to watch basketball. Unfortunately, I've never been able to witness a real big game there. I think Butler a couple years back may have been the biggest crowd I was part of.
Why is everyone questioning FreeRadical's comparisons? Just because the Pavilion isn't a baseball stadium doesn't mean you can't compare atmospheres.
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Post by spike1057 on Feb 2, 2005 22:24:04 GMT -6
Yea that Butler game a few years back was great. I also think when SIU came here it also was a packed house.
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Post by FreeRadical on Feb 3, 2005 7:08:19 GMT -6
Having had some experience in stadium design, my criteria is perhaps different than the average persons.
I make a point of walking the entire facility because I am aware of the compromises that must be made between seating capacity, sight lines, and amenities.
And I'll say it again - the Pavilion is one of the best, if not THE best stadium designs I've ever seen. It is comfortable, has nice, wide concourses, with plenty of bathrooms, and with the recent facade renovation has actually become an attractive facility. Furthermore, parking is abundant and close, making it one of the EASIEST places to get in and out of I know of.
The United Center sucks, it looks like a tin can and was completely optimized around seating capacity. And it shows. Parking is expensive and awful unless you are willing to shell out. The Rosemont Horizon is worse. The lengthy traffic jams waiting for you at the end pretty much suck the joy out of attending anything there. And as far as New Comiskey Park goes - well, the fact is the Architects had a far better solution that was rejected solely due to time constraints. Its a monument to why one should not rush major public works.
That leaves Wrigley Field which has good site lines but is historic and green enough to overcome almost any design flaws, of which there really aren't many.
The fact that the resident troll doesn't like the Pavilion is nothing more than a testament to his own bad taste.
There's really nothing to NOT like about it. Which is why I find it ridiculous that it sits empty game after game. And yes, if patronizing the Milwaukee Panther nut cases enough to make the trip is what it takes to fill the stadium, I say do it.
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Post by NewFoundGlory on Feb 3, 2005 9:43:45 GMT -6
Lolol.
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Post by UICJason on Feb 3, 2005 11:44:36 GMT -6
You should at least have some criticism of what FreeRadical has to say, or just stay out of the thread. He took the time to write out his thoughts and you say "Lolol." <sarcasm>Outstanding</sarcasm>
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Post by NewFoundGlory on Feb 3, 2005 22:20:59 GMT -6
You should at least have some criticism of what FreeRadical has to say, or just stay out of the thread. He took the time to write out his thoughts and you say "Lolol." <sarcasm>Outstanding</sarcasm> That was the point UICJason. All that post deserved was a "LOL". Not sure if I understand all your cool brackets, slashes, and online jive.
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Post by Fourth Stooge on Feb 3, 2005 22:44:18 GMT -6
PLEASE ADDRESS SOLDIER FIELD IN YOUR EQUATION!
Not that I buy a second of your rambling..
Sure, the Pavillion may be one of the best facilities, in the city of Chicago, but it doesn't even stand up to the facilities of the Horizon League.
By the way, with a large, well known city like Chicago, why are so many of the athletic facilities so poorly designed??
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Post by NewFoundGlory on Feb 3, 2005 23:03:50 GMT -6
PLEASE ADDRESS SOLDIER FIELD IN YOUR EQUATION! Not that I buy a second of your rambling.. Sure, the Pavillion may be one of the best facilities, in the city of Chicago, but it doesn't even stand up to the facilities of the Horizon League. By the way, with a large, well known city like Chicago, why are so many of the athletic facilities so poorly designed?? So as to not overshadow the teams, lol. Look at the new Soldier Field's Alien Spaceship..
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Post by FreeRadical on Feb 4, 2005 6:49:02 GMT -6
"PLEASE ADDRESS SOLDIER FIELD IN YOUR EQUATION!
Not that I buy a second of your rambling..
Sure, the Pavillion may be one of the best facilities, in the city of Chicago, but it doesn't even stand up to the facilities of the Horizon League."
The problem with discussing soldier field is that there have been four incarnations. In its original configuration, the stadium was a disaster, with poor seating. poor sightlines, minimal amenties and tons of wasted space.
The '82 renovation and skybox addition made it a (superficially, at least) modern facilty, certainly the exhibition hall was improved, and some of the wasted space was utilized, although the concourses were still too narrow and the concessions were still poor.
The '88 skybox addition was the watershed. Unfortunately, the Bears squandered the opportunity to build a second level on those boxes, which would have taken the financial pressure off and possibly avoided the "mistake by the lake".
It wasn't enitrely accidental, either. I WAS at a meeting with McCaskey and Turner Construction a year later and we flat out told him that a second level was possible. But he opted to perform the wounded duck routine for the next several years, which ultimately resulted in what we see today.
Which actually is only half bad, when you go inside. As a stadium is is actually quite nice.
But to me, its most endearing feature is the fact that it boldly protrudes its posterior over lake shore drive, defiantly mooning the entire city and inviting the proverbial kiss.
I find it so symbolic, so profoundly true that I just can't bring myself to hate it.
Now why don't you tell me exactly what YOU don't like about the Pavilion.
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Post by UWMKrazie on Feb 4, 2005 7:40:14 GMT -6
Oh where to start?
First off, the Pav is more of a hockey arena than a basketball arena. Please feel free to educate as to why. Did UIC have a hockey team at some point?
Because of this hockey based sizing, it fails for other venues like basketball. The blue curtain is hideous and makes the entire arena feel cramped. All the curtain does is condence the small attendance numbers into a smaller area.
The upper level mezzanine seating is dark and un-noticed. Sight lines you say? How about being eye level with the trusses and looking between your knees the whole time.
On the exterior, the corner entrance is weak effort by using some glazing, but surpased by the GB's Resch center.
All the praise you give about bathroom placement, concourse size, parking...it is really all irrelevant in my book. To me aesthetics top all. I've experienced many of the world's greatest architectural works, and never once cared about where the bathroom was!
Plus, the parking probably only seems good because A: Lack of attendance B: UIC was afforded greater opportunities for parking space given the recent spatial advances on the campus/neighborhood.
Take a road trip to Butler next year. Now there is a stadium that I was impressed with. The grand scale of the translucent windows and seating is just not seen anymore.
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Post by UICJason on Feb 4, 2005 7:58:11 GMT -6
Krazie,
You make some fine points, but when it comes to stadium design, bathrooms and vendors are some of the most important features.
UIC did have a hockey team. There is a stick at Major Goolsby's hanging on the wall.
The Pavilion can become bowl shaped if necessary, there are pull outs that fill the whole thing. It just isn't necessary right now. With the lack of space in there, we are afforded more amenities by using the curtain to provide special areas in the back. It works better for now. I don't know what you're talking about with parking. Those lots have been there forever. As UIC has expanded, they certainly haven't expanded with parking lots.
Hinkle Fieldhouse is a great old building with a lot of history. For that, I appreciate it. However, the windows on the top are a TERRIBLE idea. During day basketball, there are glares on the court. Basketball is not a sport that you're supposed to fight the elements. You can't watch a day game on tv there, and its hard to play. The locker rooms are frightening, and the seating is uncomfortable. It's got a Wrigley Field thing going on. It's not REALLY a great place to watch a game, but the history makes it awesome.
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Post by pnthr30 on Feb 4, 2005 9:14:11 GMT -6
During day basketball, there are glares on the court. Basketball is not a sport that you're supposed to fight the elements. You can't watch a day game on tv there, and its hard to play. The locker rooms are frightening, and the seating is uncomfortable. First of all, there is glare on the court at Hinkle during the day, but it DOES NOT make it difficult to play there. Secondly, I agree, the locker rooms at BU are VERY small. To BU's credit, they tried their best to make them nice, but they are still TINY. Thirdly, unless the Pavillion has undergone a renovation recently, the locker rooms there are only a tad better than the ones at BU. They are larger, but not very nice. It is obvious that they are/were used for hockey as they are not really "finished". They are similar to the locker rooms at the old Brown County arena in GB.
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