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Post by UICJason on Feb 13, 2005 12:49:38 GMT -6
The problem, I think, FR, is that Chicago is not a college sports town. It's a town for pro-sports, and transplants. Because of that, there is no college loyalty like there is in other states.
Like me, others may be tired of hearing about the undefeated Illini. However, in comparison to what coverage would be like almost anywhere else, we don't hear all that much. In other states, sports radio would be completely covered with Illini talk. Instead here, we still gets lots of Cubs talk, tons of offseason Bears talk, and talk about the resgurgent Bulls. For being 25-0, the Illini receive little to no coverage in reality.
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Post by BTR on Feb 13, 2005 13:48:15 GMT -6
There is snowball somewhere in hell today because Jason and I agree on something regarding this issue.
Chicago is a pro town. A football team that last won a title 20 years ago is still getting headlines and is projected to do business in the range of "8 figures" for celebrating that accomplishment.
Hell the stories about juiced up pro baseball players is getting more ink than the Illini.
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Post by FreeRadical on Feb 13, 2005 13:50:40 GMT -6
I agree completely that its a tough sell.
But I don't see it being any less tough of a sell with Jimmy gone.
Without a "game plan" to increase attendance and revenue, simply replacing Collins looks to me like a meaningless "substitution".
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Post by Big D on Feb 13, 2005 14:43:15 GMT -6
I agree for the most part that Chicago is more of a professional sports kind of town but if you look at any one of the three Chicago-area newspapers, you will see a plethora of stories on the Illini....if you run a winning and nationally respected program, you will see your fair share of coverage within the local media.
I think building a fanbase starts with the student population. For these pro teams, it is "outsiders" that attend the games. However, in college sports, you'd expect mostly insiders, i.e., those with an attachment to the university, to show up to games. This would include students, faculty, alumni, and anybody else with a relation to the program. Of course, if you're a winner (and nationally respected), then you will get the outsiders to attend the games as well. However, at this point, we are a tough sell to those outsiders...."Hey come see us beat on Youngstown State!" That's not a big seller to outsiders....but there is no excuse for UIC not to work its hardest (or at least harder) on recruiting fans from UIC.
Sure Jimmy does not have to be the director of marketing, but he could do something to help. Let's face it, fans do not want to attend a rally where the head of marketing is the key figure. Students want to see the coach out there telling them that the team is going to bring home the win with their help. Has Jimmy ever had one meeting with his fans...ever? I remember after they won the HL tourney against Loyola a couple years back, UIC held a selection Sunday party at the athletic center, and people could talk to Jimmy there (I didn't however). But that may have been the only time I have ever seen him out and about with students and alumni. I mean, if UIC were to announce a student rally in a cafeteria or in the middle of campus or in the Pavilion, where Jimmy would be recruiting fans, would you be interested in going? Don't you think you can get a couple people to go along too? This would do a better job of actually connecting the students to their team....as opposed to the students and team being completely separate entities.
I think UIC can definitely do more....have Jimmy hold a rally or two a year before we play teams like UWM or before a big non-conference game. We should also be promoting more.....get the students to the games. Advertise in the dorms, have more bonfires or other events....get a student group that actually shows up consistently in numbers to the games.
My question is, does UIC have the appropriate student makeup to build a fanbase? First of all, the number of on-campus residents are few. Second, and not to turn this into some ethnicity discussion, but how many of these dorming students actually care about sports? Honestly, if you take a look at the fans at an average UIC game, the majority would be white and black (or races W and B, for generalization). However, how much of the dorming student body is one of races W and B? Do students of race X want to attend basketball games? Do students of race Y want to attend basketball games? Some....yes....but not most I'm guessing. Again, I don't want to turn this into a race discussion, but with UIC being one of the most diverse schools in the country, and with UIC being a commuter school, do we have a large enough pro-sport student body to recruit from? Whether we do or not, we should have no problem getting more than 50 students to the games.
OK, I think I'm rambling at this point so I will end this....but I just want to reiterate that overall, I'm a fan of Jimmy Collins, but I think he should be more active. And, I question his coaching skills at times. But he is a solid recruiter, he is a good guy, he gets his kids to graduate and behave, and he is likely to be around for the long haul. I think this might be better than having UIC be a revolving door for up and coming coaches.
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Post by UICJason on Feb 13, 2005 14:45:30 GMT -6
Yeah, it seems clear that winning isn't really the answer to attendance either. We won 24 games last year.
Look at DePaul. They have history and they have an old fan base...and honestly they're having a pretty good year now. They just beat Cincinatti by 25. They have no attendance. It's inflated for numbers, but in the place there is no one.
I think the only way to get some attendance is to really push the student body (especially those living in the halls) and to win BIG. By that, I mean cracking the top 25...going to the sweet 16, etc. Other than that, I see no way that the Pavilion is going to fill up, sans games against GT and the like.
I don't put this on the populous yet. I put this on the student body & Athletics. For about 1500 of them, the Pavilion is four blocks away. Gimme a break. For athletics...how hard is it to work with housing to get these people early? How hard is it to go to Floor Meetings, give away a little giveaway, and excite some people. It's so easy.
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Post by uicstomper on Feb 13, 2005 16:53:40 GMT -6
It kills me that some people think Jimmy Is some kind of savior. If your happy with underachieving and mediocrity then Jimmy is your man. The guy can not coach. We have a non existent offense and pretty much always have had that. His whole game plan is to look to one player to score everything. He is horrible in making in game adjustments. he is a average coach at best and is going downhill. We have had the most talent in the league the last 4 years and he has no regular season conference championships. Someone brung up gene cross in a previous post. He is one of the main reasons the big 3 came to UIC. Now he is having doing great as an assistant with DePaul. Guess what If there was a Jimmy Collins day no one would be there but the ass licking politically correct Illinios loving media. And about 6 six of us who write on the board and probaly 3 of them would be the guys from UWM. Yes he has improved the program, but he has hit the wall because he doesnt have the talent to bring it to another level so bye bye Jimmy
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Post by Captain A on Feb 13, 2005 18:42:51 GMT -6
Let's review a little history- Bob Hallberg, the winningest coach in UIC History before Jimmy overtook him, won 0 championships, 0 league titles and lead UIC to 0 NCAA or NIT Tournaments. I was at the Tournament Championship game that UIC lost to UWGB when Sherell Ford was playing, and that was the pinnacle of the Flames accomplishments. When I would go to the games back then, I thought Hallberg was a pretty bad coach.
Then Jimmy comes along in 1996. Gets some players to play defense, gets UIC to 3 NCAA Tournaments, one NIT and gets some excitement around the program. If you think the crowds are poor some games now, go back to the '90s even when Jimmy WAS at UIC where there were a couple hundred people at the Pavillion. And literally NO student attendance.
Have some perspective- UIC is not Duke, is not North Carolina, is not even DePaul. UIC doesn't have a long, rich history of basketball, like many major programs. But Jimmy has brought a lot to the program since he has arrived.
Do I think Jimmy is the best coach ever? No. I think he has many faults. I think this year the team has disintegrated, with too many players wanting to freelance and not play team ball. That's on Jimmy. I think next year will be positively SCARY without Armond and Ced. Hopefully the recruits can play, but I have the sneaking suspicion that they will not be as spectacular as some who post here might believe.
Has Jimmy done a A+ job? No. This year I'd probably give him a C. But I'd say calling for his head is a little extreme.
And unless the Flames win the Horizon Tourney and get the Conference Bid, I cannot imagine them getting into post season play in the NCAA or the NIT.
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Post by UICJohn on Feb 13, 2005 19:39:46 GMT -6
UIC doesn't have a long rich history. This is correct. But that's why it is going to be a slow job in getting the stands full. And it starts with the students. UIC is just now becoming more and more of the "typical" college thing. It isn't there and it probably never will be fully given that it's in a metropolis and all, but more and more dorms are going up and more and more students are living on campus or just off of it. These are the students that we must get there, and who will graduate, and who will hopefully continue to come. I know that I will. And from there, the new students will also get into UIC sports along with the alumni. From there, more and more. That at least must be the plan.
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Post by FreeRadical on Feb 13, 2005 20:38:33 GMT -6
"My question is, does UIC have the appropriate student makeup to build a fanbase? First of all, the number of on-campus residents are few. Second, and not to turn this into some ethnicity discussion, but how many of these dorming students actually care about sports? Honestly, if you take a look at the fans at an average UIC game, the majority would be white and black (or races W and B, for generalization)"
Well. bigD, back in the Circle Campus days, it was frequently wondered whether UIC could EVER attract top students at all, given the options and choices that would always be available to them. I think UIC's GPPA program has answered that question pretty convincingly. But it didn't happen overnight and they had to go out and aggresively PROMOTE it. Perhaps most importantly, they had to think outside the box. In order to get top students they had to offer them something they couldn't get elsewhere.
I think a similar effort and creative thinking will be required for the basketball program. And it can't be just a white-kid black-kid thing or it won't work at UIC.
This is where I think the school is dropping the ball. They are simply going to HAVE to get the Indians, Arabs, Chinese, Filipinos, etc. etc. to buy into this team as THEIR team or the stadium is going to continue to be empty. Admittedly that is no small task.
I think you are right on the money in advocating more public relations "meet the team / coach" type events. UIC, by its very nature needs to do MORE of that than other schools would. And it needs to be aimed at ALL the students, including the ethnic student organizations.
I don't know Jimmy Collins, so I can't comment on his willingness or unwillingness to participate in meet the team events or raise his profile around campus and around the city. But whoever's job it is to fill the seats is clearly failing, and something badly needs to be done.
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